Ask The Pro's

Personal Injury Marketing & Leads

All right you guys, welcome back to Ask The Pros joined by the professionals here in the studio Jacob Morris. There is pro number one and Dr. Chad Woolner, you are a pro.

Thank you. [crosstalk 00:00:20] Yes, you did. Perfect. He’s getting more professional [crosstalk 00:00:26] by the episode.

Getting better.

Yeah. So, today we’re talking about personal injury marketing, which we’ve got all of us collectively have a lot of experience with this and maybe by way of introducing this, I had a conversation with a gentleman out of Utah this week and he was really interested in our click campaigns and was wondering if we had that for personal injury and I said, “No. In fact, we don’t do personal injury. On our platform, we don’t do personal injury and there’s a reason for that,” which by the end of this episode you guys are going to totally understand, but personal injury marketing is totally doable, okay? You guys have some marketing for personal injury stuff here that might not be digital in a sense, but very effective.

Yeah, I mean, it’s a mixture. It’s a hybrid. I would say that’s the best way of putting it.

Right. So, we’ll talk about that, but I guess the first thing is Jacob, why is it that, in very simple terms, why don’t we offer personal injury marketing inside of patient capture?

It’s expensive. That is the number one reason. It just costs a ton of money because when you think about personal injury, it’s not like people are Googling or looking at Facebook especially, it’s not like they’re on there saying, “I’m about to get in a car accident.” It’s something that happens and it’s a very short window to grab them, right?

Well, when you say it’s expensive, let’s clarify that just a little bit for them to understand. It’s expensive to do direct response marketing [crosstalk 00:02:06] for personal injury, meaning I put this out and I’m supposed to get right now from [crosstalk 00:02:13]. Yeah. That’s what’s expensive.

Yeah and the reason why it’s so expensive is your window of opportunity is extremely short and there’s a lot of people with much deeper wallets than most doctors have to grab that person.

Well, and that’s a good point that you got to understand too. A lot of the attorneys that are competing for these cases, it’s worth it for them to spend 1000, 2000, 3000, $5000 to get a single patient because unlike chiropractors and chiropractic clinics and even integrated clinics for that matter, even my guess is the best states, Oregon, Washington, who have really good insurance reimbursements for personal injury, the maximum for a really good case, 13, 14 $15,000 we’ll just say on the crazy high end or whatever, whereas a personal injury attorney could potentially stand to get an $80,000, $100,000 paycheck from a case, depending upon the factors that had been involved. If that person sustained significant injury, had multiple surgeries or had significant disability, that wouldn’t even be seen by a chiropractor, you know what I mean? So, in terms of the cost per acquisition, they’re far more willing and able to pay much higher than you can because it’s worth more to them than it is to you.

Right. So, I want to back this up to individual platforms because I think it will help people watching, “Hey, Facebook has a method of delivery. People use it in a very specific way and same with Google,” okay? And for reasons of simplicity, we’re just going to keep on those two platforms, right? I mean, Google, YouTube, you could talk, but so Facebook, I consider, well, I call it Facebook interruption based marketing, right? Because you have passive people using it for whatever reason and you show them an ad, okay? And you’re hoping that ad gets a direct response, okay? The problem is when you get in an accident, you don’t go on Facebook.

Right.

No.

You’re like, “Oh, I wonder what Jacob’s doing today. Aw man.” That’s not what [crosstalk 00:04:28].

That was good acting.

That was great.

Professional actor, but you go on-

You go onto Google.

Google, right? And there’s no reason you shouldn’t be able to do that. So on Google, you’re on Google, you’re in a campaign and you are a Jedi at campaigns. Walk me through a typical personal injury paper click campaign for chiropractors.

I mean, well, you’re going to be going after your usual suspect keywords, right? So, there are going to be people looking for whiplash, going to be looking for people who say, “I was just in a car accident, looking for a doctor specifically for dealing with car accidents.” So, you’re going to be going after those keywords, but the problem is you are not the only person going after those keywords, right?

This goes back to what we were talking about with the personal injury attorneys. Yeah.

So, you’re going after those keywords and you’re hitting the exact person that you want to, but when you look at what’s called the auction insights inside of Google and you’re building out your campaign, you’re also going to start seeing that local attorney or that regional attorney or the hospital or all these other people that all of a sudden your cost per clicks and this is when you’re building out these campaigns on pay-per-click, one of the things that you should pay very close attention to is how much is that click going to cost me? More often than not, those cost per clicks are going to cost you 50, 60, $70 for one click and then when you think about a funnel, the best performing funnel, I mean, you’re going to be looking at 30% conversion rates on that, right? So, you’re going to need nine clicks to get one conversion out of that basically.

One lead.

One lead. That isn’t necessarily going to turn into a patient for you, right? So, you’ve got burn through a lot of cash to get that person to actually become a patient for you and like Chad said, even in the best states for these things, you might be breaking even at the end of the day, right? With as much as you’re spending.

Right. So, I mean really it’s going to be expensive, right? So, we’re not in the company, us together, we’re not here just to focus on the negative. So, let’s segue over to, all right, so you want to be online or you want to go after that personal injury patient. What is the best way to do this then, right? So, I’m actually going to tee this over to you because I really like your local approach to doing this. So, I have not even prompted you for anything. What is your strategy for going after this type of patient?

Well, and let me clarify. Yeah, that’s great. Thank you. Let me preface this and clarify by saying we don’t position our clinic as a strictly personal injury clinic. We’ve done, I think, a good job and we get a fair amount of personal injury patients through our doors as a result of either direct or indirectly from our marketing efforts, but I would say this, a couple of things to consider. Diversity in marketing is going to create a greater level of stability and what I mean by diversity in your marketing is that you should have stuff that’s both online in terms of content and I’ll unpack each of these in just a second. You should have good solid relationships with various referral sources that could include attorneys, medical doctors and other healthcare professionals and then over the top of that, on your website, making sure that you have really clear, concise information on the website because again, like you said, most of the people are going to be searching you rather than you reaching them, if that makes sense and so, that means that content on your website is very relevant and very important.

So, from that standpoint, let’s move a little bit closer in from a tactical standpoint. First and foremost, you got to be prepared to play the long game here. This is a longterm strategy and so, it’s one of those things where just accept it. You can either accept it or you can fight against it for the next 12 months and then in the next 12 months you can go back and revisit the same video that I just said and you can be like, “Dang, I would be in a completely different place had I accepted this information and this advice from Dr. Woolner 12 months ago,” and so, if you’re just willing to say, “You know what? For the next 12 months I’m going to put my head down with zero expectation of getting a personal injury patient in the door that day,” or that month or whatever and just say, “Okay, so what I’m going to do is I’m going to create awesome content,” and let me just give you guys… Can I give them a little pro tip here as to how they can do this in a really cool way?

Yeah, absolutely.

See the problem, we were talking about this before the show, and this wasn’t what queued us up, but we were chatting about other stuff. Most docs, when they think about how do I get referrals from either attorneys, medical doctors, or other other healthcare professionals or other business owners or whatever, they typically look at it in terms of this.

Okay, so Jacob is the local attorney here. We’re just going to pretend. Hi Jacob.I have this basket of goodies. This is me introducing myself and bribing my way into your door. I’m a chiropractor and let me just razzle dazzle you with how amazing I am. I’ve got all these initials behind my name. I can take better care of all of your clients better than anyone else can. Oh and by the way, I’m willing to refer back to you, right? That’s the best.

That’s the pitch.

I mean, yeah.

That’s the typical pitch.

Exactly, minus the details, but that’s pretty much how it goes. It’s this two way street, right? We learned this a long time ago and I wouldn’t by any means say that we’ve perfected it, but what you’re really wanting to do in this situation is first off, understand you have to develop real relationships.

That is not a real relationship and maybe you’ve made that work, but typically, at least in my experience has been when people come in that approach into our clinic, it just all of a sudden puts up barriers and defenses there and so, the thing that you’re looking for, the operative term is leverage. You’re looking for leverage. That’s the secret and so, let me tell you something very tactical and tangible and practical that is leverage is if you are willing to say for the next 12 months, and this is, again, I’m going to reiterate, it’s a long play. It’s a long play, but over the next 12 months, what I’m going to do is I’m going to create a local show, a local podcast or a local YouTube show or a local-

Yeah, a platform.

A platform, a local platform and I’m going to go all in. 80% of that is going to be dedicated to personal injury, helping educate the community all about personal injury.

You start getting attention on that platform and you start getting… You have an actual audience. Now how much more easy is it going to be to get the personal injury attorneys to pay attention to you and to want to work with you and to basically get away from this type of a thing to-

Yeah, this is chess, this is not checkers. This is thinking a move, what happens after the first move? and it’s also the give value first. This give value first concept that we all talk about seems so abstract to people, but it’s no, position yourself so you have something to offer to them and you can’t just offer them referrals because then you’re offering referrals to, okay, well I’ve got three of them. How am I going to get enough referrals to feed these people? And you’re not going to, it’s not going to work. So, you have to have something to offer them that is not that tit for tat exchange. You know what I mean?

Well and we talk about this all the time too, it’s also all about, and he hinted at it, it’s all about positioning, right? If you have put that legwork in where now you are the local expert in your area on personal injury, the attorneys, the doctors, they’re knocking on your door, not you knocking on theirs, right? Because you have the position now as being the authority.

I heard Mark Cuban say one time, he said, “What is the mark of a good business?” It’s so stupid, but it’s so true. He goes, “Whether or not it has customers,” and it’s like, “Oh, okay.” It’s the same thing. Do you have an audience? Now you have something to offer. You know what I mean?

And so, this has been something that we’ve been doing at our clinic that’s been so far and we’re relatively new to this particular aspect, specifically we have a podcast, but we’ve been focusing as of late a lot on the local and not just with attorneys, but we’ve been interviewing a local healthcare professionals, tapping into their audiences and using that as a really powerful tactic and platform, but the other thing that we’ve always done fairly early on in practice is that we have created really good success story testimonial videos that are very emotional, that are very well done artistically speaking and so again, if you’re looking to play the long game, what I would say is, “Okay, so not only are we going to build our platform, but on top of that, what we’re going to do is once a month or twice a month, we’re going to look for some of our personal injury cases that we’ve got and we’re going to start creating success story videos and then what we could do is-

I mean, those attorneys, they need content too-

Right. Yeah, exactly and so, you do that and then what you could do is, let’s say you hire Jacob and these guys to run video views campaigns. Now again, this is not direct response, but what Facebook can do for you, which is really cool, is when you start engaging in video of users or CPM stuff like that, which for those, I’m assuming they know CPM cost per 1000 impressions, right? M is like the Roman-

Millennia, I think it is. Is it millennia?

Millennia, which is like 1000 impressions, but the point is that you can literally use Facebook now as a digital billboard, right? So, instead of paying 1000 bucks a month for a billboard out on the side of the highway, you can have way better strategic targeting with your videos and I mean, what could you get for even in a crowded city, what could you get for 1000 bucks on video views?

1000 bucks on… Oh, well, usually your video views right now are costing about 13 cent, on Facebook, about 12, 13 cents per 10 seconds, right? So, Facebook changed up the way they do their pricing on a ten-fold, ten second view, that’s a lot of attention to capture on Facebook-

And again, consider that and-

That’s a huge amount. So-

What’s the average time span? And I don’t know if you know the studies on this or whatever, I don’t even know, but what’s the time-

Ask him, I bet you he knows.

Well, I’m talking about how much time do people see a billboard for? [crosstalk 00:15:02] less than 10 seconds unless it’s at a stoplight, you know what I mean? So-

Billboard marketing. Yeah, I mean really all of this stuff where… I heard Sam Evans once say, he said, “The only reason that you know your parents love you is because they’ve served you millions of impressions,” right? And you know that we’re wired to remember faces. So, if you have the ability to get in front of people and then if you can keep their attention for 10 seconds, yeah, all the better. So, the next thing is you have a program coming out for video and I didn’t intend to promote this, but I would say video and SEO are your play.

If we were just to put a finger on it, if you want to be pulling in the big bucks with PI patients, okay? In the future, it’s not a thing that’s going to happen to you in 12 months. However, so long as you anticipate being in business the two, three, four and more, you should start today focusing on video and SEO.

Make the commitment to just be a content machine.

Yes.

And the quick plug I will make for this course is this course is not what I think a lot of docs might think it is in the sense that it’s not about how you, the doc, are going to do all this yourself, but rather how you can leverage technology outsourcing and other tools to be able to have a lot of the legwork done for you.

Well, yeah, and that’s the thing is it’s easy to do, but more so it’s like, “Okay, it’s easy to do, but what do I do?”

Right.

You have that all. So, I’ll link that in the description below. There’ll be a URL in the link for all that. They can get information on that, but I think understanding the power of video. SEO, I mean you know a lot about SEO. Just give a quick, and we use Net Fusion One, is that who we use?

Yeah. Yep. We use Net Fusion One for our SEO-

And I’ll link them below as well because they do a ton of local. If you guys wanted to know more about that, but maybe give a little… So SEO, we’ve got video, which is huge in SEO, but maybe just some tips.

I mean, the biggest tip to have for SEO is if you spend the 40 bucks, go to Moz and get your directory squared away. I mean, if you’re going to do one thing with SEO yourself before you hire a professional is just get your directory squared away because that’s what, as far as local search is going to be concerned, that’s going to be a huge indicator for Google and if you get, there’s about 170 directories that Google actually will look at and Moz will make sure that you’re correcting all of them. You’ll see your ranking jump up just by doing that single thing all by itself.

Well, and I would say you know how you feel when you go to the mechanic and you’re like, “Oh geez, what’s this going to cost me?” And whatever he says, “Yeah, it’s the rotor and the girder.” Oh geez, whatever. You have no idea and it feels the same way with SEO guys and so, I would say first of all, know enough to be dangerous, that way you know you’re not getting taken, okay? And second of all, really the guys at Net Fusion One, they’re actually here.

They’re solid.

They’re solid. They’re here local. So, they’re folks that we know here in Boise, they do a really good job. They focus on local and that’s what you need. You need somebody, not an SEO guru for nationwide stuff. You need a local SEO expert. So, it’s worth the conversation.

And this is too, going back to Chad with the long game concept, is you have to be willing, especially with SEO, to put in the long game. It’s not going to be a direct response, “You’re going to get an ROI next,” right? As a matter of fact, you’re not going to get an ROA probably for six months or later down the road for search engines and it’s probably going to cost you, even if you were to not go with Net Fusion, you might go with a local guy in your area.

Most SEOs are going to cost you anywhere between 1000 to 2000 bucks a month, right? So, keeping that in mind it’s going to pay out huge dividends because again-

In the long run-

In the long run because you remember what we were talking on a pay-per-click side, right? To go after that exact same keyword where the attorneys are going nuts on, you’re looking at $60 a click, right? SEO is going to be free once you hit that point and the thing about SEO is it’s a whole lot easier to maintain than it is to achieve.

Right, yeah, good point.

So, once you hit that point in the search and result where you’re one of the top results in there, it’s going to cost you a whole lot less to maintain that slot-

That’s the long game man.

That somebody’s paying a whole bunch of money on a pay-

And that’s where you can really outspend people because now you could take what you were previously allocating and dump, double up, double down, I guess I should say.

And then the other piece I would say is people are naturally going to default towards the easy switch. There’s not an easy switch.

No, not with this one.

So, stop that, okay? That’ll give you an immense calming effect because you know, “Okay, cool. I don’t need to rush this. I need to create consistent.” That’s one of the things you got to be is consistent. You have got to be consistent. You can’t just blitz content for a week and then stop for a month. That will flag Google quicker than anything else. So, you got to be consistent.

Well, it’s not even just flagging. Google, it’s your audience too, right?

Right, exactly.

Let’s say you’re running Facebook video ads or YouTube ads, right? And you’ve been running this video, you’ve done it for two weeks and then you stop running it for a month or you stop running it for a couple of weeks. Your audience is going to forget about you. I mean, if you think about billboard advertising and you wonder why you drive by the same billboard over and over for months on and you’re like, “Why does this guy keep putting this billboard out there?” It’s because when you actually need them, you’re going to, “Oh, what was that billboard I looked at?” Right? If you stop putting your video ads out there, you stop putting out your content, they’re going to start forgetting about you.

One call. That’s all. [crosstalk 00:20:44] That’s the local guy here and so anyway, thank you guys both. Hopefully this has been really helpful and useful for you guys. Sometimes these Ask The Pro things are not like, “Hey, here’s the magic switch,” because a lot of times that’s not how these things work, but our goal is to be transparent, to be honest, notes and information, all those links and stuff are in the description below. Thanks for tuning in. We’ll see you on the next one.

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